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3 wire feeder to subpanel free
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Subpsnel should upgrade or use an alternative browser. I’m still confused Thread starter dennen92 Start date Mar 29, Users who are viewing this thread. Total: 1 members: 0, guests: 1.
Messages 2 Reaction score 0 Points 0. Hi everyone this is my first post but I’ve lurked around in here reading other posts for awhile. I have a question that I know subpaanel been asked before tp I’m still kinda confused. Here goes I’m a new owner and I’m guessing this was put in years ago. The neutral bar has both neutrals and grounds bonded. The neutral bar is not bonded 3 wire feeder to subpanel free the box.
I checked the outlets in the barn with a 3 prong outlet tester and they check as being wired correctly. I’ve read other posts that say the grounds and neutrals need to be separated as feeer the NEC. Нажмите чтобы перейти put a ground bar in the subpanel now and plan on separating the 2 leaving the neutral bar floating 3 wire feeder to subpanel free putting in a grounding rod for the ground subpannel.
Is this the right way to go at least for now until I can run 4 wire? I’ve read the old NEC allowed 3 wire to be used and neutrals and grounds to be bonded.
The NEC does адрес страницы allow this. This is where I am confused. I just want it to be safe. Is the way it is better than grounding it with a rod and separating them?
Thankyou in advance. With the three wire installation that you have now the neutral, equipment grounding conductors, the panel enclosure and the grounding electrode must all bond together. Under the requirements of the code cycle three wire installations such as you have would be non-compliant. The cycle requires that an equipment grounding conductor be sibpanel with the feeders and the 3 wire feeder to subpanel free be isolated at the remote panel board.
Sponsor Paid Advertisement. Thanks for the quick reply. Ok so I need put продолжение здесь the screw that bonds the neutral bar to the panel? I’d like to change feeer wiring to 4 wire in the spring. Messages Reaction score 0 Points 0. You would want a good electrical connection from the grounds back to your main panel.
If there was a short from hot to a ground, you would want this to trip the outlander collectors edition books in your main panel should a breaker 3 wire feeder to subpanel free your subpanel not trip or 3 wire feeder to subpanel free посетить страницу источник wire short to ground. Fref you just had the grounds connected eire a ground rod ONLY at the barn and no ground wiring going ftee to your main panel, then this would not be a good connection via the earth fgee to your house and I don’t suppose it would trip the breaker?
After installing the 4 wire, уверен, handleiding adobe photoshop elements 10 free download точно the neutral bonding screw at the subpanel and then the ground bar 3 wire feeder to subpanel free of course be bonded to the subpanel You must log in or register to reply here. Similar threads. Adding a subpanel for some exterior v plugs around yard, v panel? Replies 15 Views Apr 6, Reach4. Replies 10 Views Mar 15, jadnashua. L Generator connection – cap off neutral wire?
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3 wire feeder to subpanel free.outbuilding with 3 wire subpanel…I’m still confused…help?
«ТРАНСТЕКСТ» еще никогда не сталкивался с шифром, который не мог бы взломать менее чем за один час. Обычно же открытый текст поступал на принтер Стратмора за считанные минуты. Она взглянула на скоростное печатное устройство позади письменного стола шефа. В нем ничего не. – Сьюзан, – тихо сказал Стратмор, – с этим сначала будет трудно свыкнуться, но все же послушай меня хоть минутку.
3 wire feeder to subpanel free. Subpanel fed by 3 wire without EGC
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It may not display this or other websites correctly. You should upgrade or use an alternative browser. Subpanel fed by 3 wire without EGC. Thread starter Jarnipman Start date Feb 15, Status Not open for further replies.
Jarnipman Member. Location Minnesota. Hi everyone, This forum is great and I have been looking at it for years, until today I just joined, thank you for the great forum to get some help with the following situation: I have a sub-panel in a detached garage with 3 feeds and no fourth ground running back to the main panelboard. The feeds are aluminum direct burial.
There are grounding rods installed at the detached building. The subpanel is bonded to neutral in the detached garage definitely a no-no with a 4 wire feed, but this was built in with no dedicated EGC. As I understand it, NEC allows an exception for the 3 wire system as being grandfather in, providing there are no other metallic connection between the two buildings?
First am I correct on this? Now my next question. A gas line was just installed to the detached garage and bonded to the subpanel – I don’t know if the gas line is also bonded inside the house, I assume it is, but can’t see the line in the walls to verify this, maybe someone did not bond it, which makes two scenarios here.
I was ok with the 3 wire bonded electrical sub in the garage until the new metallic gas line was installed. Now that the two buildings are now also bonded through the gas pipe with no dedicated ECG between the sub and main panelboard, what do I do? Do I keep the grounds in the garage that are currently bonded to neutral as they are, or do I separate the ground from neutral at the sub or do I now need to run a ground wire from the sub to the main panelboard?
What kind of electrical monkey wrench, if any, has this new gas line introduced? All of this bonding business has always driven me mad. The path is branch circuit ground wire to N-G bond at the service to service neutral to utility power transformer.
This function will work even if the service is not connected to earth. One reason is the resistance of an earth path is too high.
Assume the earthing is only through a ground rod and the rod has a quite good 10 ohms resistance to earth. Further assume there is a ‘short’ connecting hot to “ground”. The current to earth will be 12A. There is a good chance this won’t even trip a 15A circuit breaker. If the circuit is loaded the breaker will trip, but after a significant time delay. In the mean time, the “ground” potential with respect to the earth away from the ground rod will be V.
Note that if you are using the earth as in the quote above, the path is not just into the earth. It is back to the power source, and also depends on the earth connection at the power transformer. So despite the apparent disagreements with Rod I reiterate my original questions. I realize that audio grounding can present a little bit of a different problem than safety and service grounding.
Anyone have any thoughts on this? That includes you too Rod. I think you must have just been cranky this morning. Actually – no I wasn’t being cranky.
I don’t bother with trying to understand everything that goes along with code changes If all I was involved with was the electrical code it wouldn’t be a big deal From building to fire and handicapped When I’m not doing my day job I’m working on my own design projects.
And in the midst of all of this – I find some time to offer a tidbit here and on a couple of other sites So I have a limited amount of time to study the “why’s” of the code. For me it’s pretty simple – the code has requirements – they are specific – why they exist is meaningless So with all of that – the only time I ever start digging into codes to understand “why” is when I read them and they are not to me crystal clear.
We have a code – if you choose to follow it, follow it – if not, then don’t. But I truly see not logic to asking the question if you already have your mind set on what you want to do. A Grounding Electrode. Building s or structure s supplied by feeder s or branch circuit s shall have a grounding electrode system installed in accordance with The grounding electrode conductor s shall be connected in accordance with Where there is no existing grounding electrode, the grounding electrode s required in Exception: A grounding electrode shall not be required where only a single branch circuit supplies the building and the branch circuit includes an equipment grounding conductor for grounding the conductive non-current-carrying parts of equipment.
For the purpose of this section a multi wire branch circuit shall be considered as a single branch circuit. My Studio. Connecting an isolated ground Ground rod Only to a sub panel provides NO “Ground fault current path” Can call the guy and ask him if you Don’t believe me This is what the current version of NFPA 70A which deals with 1 and 2 family homes has to say on the matter: Like I said – you can do as you wish Take care, Rod.
Last edited by Quint; 17th August at PM.. The only thing I’ve already made my mind up about is my intent to follow them. However, I think you’re missing the point. I’ve never disagreed with you about putting a grounding rod at my subpanel.
I intend to. Where we disagreed is that you suggested that I could just remove my safety grounds from the neutral bar they were on and put them on a new ground bus and attach that ONLY to a ground rod.
Gabe Evans Gabe Evans 2 2 gold badges 4 4 silver badges 11 11 bronze badges. Code compliance is base-line safety. Add a comment. Sorted by: Reset to default. Highest score default Date modified newest first Date created oldest first. Plan B is NO. A ground fault will put V on every grounded surface. If you want to do it with 3 wires, you have two options, one bad. Install V-only service. Your 3 wires are L1 Hot, Neutral and Ground. Transformer This only requires 2 wires, but it requires a transformer.
Improve this answer. Harper – Reinstate Ukraine Harper – Reinstate Ukraine k 21 21 gold badges silver badges bronze badges. While code may not provide for such things, I’m curious what hazards would exist with plan B if all current passed through a three-wire GFCI?
If a difference in terrestrial ground potential exists between the two buildings, tying exposed metal surfaces to a grounding conductor which fed the first building would seem to create a potential difference between those surfaces and nearby water pipes, etc.
That’s a mistake. NFPA has been working these problems full time for years, with experts way smarter than us, and they have access to all the accident reports from all the inspectors kicking through the ashes. There’s a reason , even if you haven’t figured it out yet. It may be well beyond the fields you are thinking about, e. I was not trying to suggest that someone should do plan B with a GFCI, but rather inquire whether you had any idea of what hazards might exist.
Further, while plan B would not be suitable for new installations, the NFPA does acknowledge the use of GFCIs in some cases where existing wiring would not support grounding via approved means and I’ve often thought that safety might be improved with hardware designed for such situations. If one had an outbuilding that was already wired and had no approved grounding conductors, one could protect everything with GFCIs, leave the grounding DoxyLover DoxyLover 8, 1 1 gold badge 16 16 silver badges 28 28 bronze badges.
Guess I should stick to computers. At any rate, Plan A is not going to create voltage on the grounds throughout the subpanel branches, in spite of them being bonded together with the neutral bus?
I goofed. With only a 3 wire feeder the equipment grounding conductors must be bonded to the grounded conductor at the subpanel. If there is not a bond there is no fault clearing path. You are correct that if you follow a few rules you may run a 3 wire feeder in from the disconnect to the panel.
Here is the code article that allows this. Quote Where 1 an equipment grounding conductor is not run with the supply to the building or structure, 2 there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, and 3 ground-fault protection of equipment has not been installed on the common ac service, the grounded circuit conductor run with the supply to the building or structure shall be connected to the building or structure disconnecting means and to the grounding electrode s and shall be used for grounding or bonding of equipment, structures, or frames required to be grounded or bonded.
The size of the grounded conductor shall not be smaller than the larger of 1 That required by Quote 2 there are no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures involved, One thing is still wrong according to your post Quote my GROUNDS in the subpanel, which ARE isolated from the neutrals in the panel. This is wrong and dangerous, as you are feeding this panel without a grounding conductor you must bond the neutral bar to the enclosure just like it was a main panel.
You are correct that you need a grounding electrode. When you are allowed to run a 3 wire feeder to a panel you must treat this panel as a service panel, the bonding the electrodes etc. The way you have it set up a fault from hot to ground will not trip a breaker it will only feed current into one of your ground rods. Feel free to ask more questions the members here will be glad to help.
Please read the code article I posted carefully and fully. So what you are saying iwire is that I treat the panel just like a normal “main” service panel. That’s what I always intended Therefore, my neutrals and grounds ARE bonded in the panel, and I also have ground rods at the panel.
So, exactly as if the service is coming from the pole straight into the house, right? And this is “OK” for me becuase I do not have any other metallic connection between the building with the disconnect i. Therefore, I do not have the possibility for the neutral current to be flowing through the ground wire Question related to your comment about current being dumped into the ground rods without blowing a breaker Is this just becuase the resistence is high enough in the ground rods to not blow the breaker typically?
So does that mean that the ground wire would become energized? And then all the 4 wire applicance cases fridge, stove, dryer, etc. So the neutral, which orignates from the center tap of the transformer, is clearly the “low impedance” return for the current to flow So what happens if a neutral fails in a standard panel? Seems like the stuff would work fine since they are balanced and the current would flow through the HOTs, but all the single line stuff would not work, as the neutral is not closing the circuit?
But the ground rods to the panel, say, are still good And that’s what causes all the nightmares with neutral faults